>> that might be the most bizarre email we have every received. what is a nutria, you ask? we did some research. that is a nutria. i wouldn't mind having that in my bedroom. one of mike barnicle and jonathan capehart. now we're back in business. back to work. "morning joe" starts right now. i can't think of a time when i felt it was more important for us to defeat an incumbent president than today with respect to barack obama. i think he has been an

unmitigated disaster for the country. i think to be in a position where he gets four more years in the white house to continue the policies he has, both with respect to the economy and tax policy and defense and then so many other areas would be a huge, huge disappointment. top of the hour. good morning. it is monday, april 16. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we've got the executive editor of random house and pulitzer prize winning historian and "time" magazine contributing editor john meacham. and msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu and former common harold ford jr. and, look, i don't know you. >> hello. >> who's you? >> good to be back. >> did you misus? >> i did. i missed you. >> you did not. >> it's good to come back.

>> john meacham was gone also this past weekend. you know where he was? to the love club. >> this is a terrible story. >> exactly. >> what's terrible? what? is this a shock? >> i'm not going to start the week like this. are you? >> i'm shocked, stunned, and deeply saddened. so how was your get away? >> it was very nice. very nice. chasing 2-year-olds around the beach is very relaxing. >> that is great. always not what you think it's going to be. >> no, it was great. >> i often watched my wife do that. it looked pretty difficult. >> see, i don't get off the hook as easy. yeah. >> so dick cheney, he doesn't follow the bush idea of not going after the sitting president. he just launched full in there. saying that barack obama was an unmitigated disaster. >> well, i don't think the president or the white house is surprised by the vice president's assessment. bin laden is dead.

gm is up. unemployment is coming down. health care bill, ambitious, parts of it works. a lot of it works. some of it doesn't work. >> what -- >> cheney made the case that the president shouldn't be re-elected, and i'm making the case that the president should be re-elected. i'm not surprised by cheney. the president is not surprised by him. if mitt romney wants to put dick cheney out front, the white house doesn't talk to me much about campaigns but i would think they have to be good with that. >> i was just impressed with dick cheney, and you're doing a re-elect commercial. >> well, he just did a commercial for romney. >> bin laden is dead. i'm just saying narrow it down to three. >> gm is up. >> how about alive? let's do that. so bin laden is dead. gm is alive. and -- >> the economy is coming back, slowly, but coming back. >> but slowly. america is coming back.

>> i gave it to you a second ago. >> no, i'm saying let's narrow it down to three so the next time we do this you can say -- what do you think? so you're the word smith. i think you go, if you're barack obama, say bin laden is dead. gm is alive. and america is on its way back. what do you say? what do you think? >> although with the slowly, it's sort of -- >> you can't say slowly. >> you can't say it's predawn in america. >> no. but you have to be careful in overstating. at the same time, the president inherited a lot. he knew it. and he's turned it around. he's turned the corner. >> no. we've got to be punchy. what do you think? >> you should say -- and i think joe biden has been saying this, bin laden is dead, and detroit is alive. >> bin laden is dead. detroit is alive. and america's best days truly lie ahead. >> david axelrod gave this a try yesterday on fox. >> what did he say? >> well, here you go. >> the choice in this election

is between an economy that produces a growing middle class and that gives people a chance to get ahead and their kids a chance to get ahead and an economy that continues down the road we're on, where a fewer and fewer number of people do very ha well, and everybody else is running faster and faster just to keep pace. >> and the republican response? >> what would our slogan be? >> yeah. >> let me think through it. he made it worse. ok. >> he so didn't. he made it worse. >> he made it worse. >> do you agree it's -- >> i'm just saying -- >> that's not going to work. >> i think it could. i think that is -- everything the republicans do from now through the election should all flow in to that phrase. he made it worse. he took a bad debt, he made it worse. you can go through it. but that's really the big battle

here. did barack obama make things worse or did he stop america from falling over a cliff? and how america answers that question on the first tuesday in november determines who's elected. >> but a what if scenario. do you think things would be radically different if mccain had won? >> i personally do. i personally do. i don't think -- i certainly don't think congress would have been distracted by the health care bill. i don't think they would have been distracted by cap and trade. i think there would have been more of a focus on jobs. and i think that the general tone is set for big and small business alike would have encouraged more investment in the economy. the $2 trillion on the sidelines would have been invested. there's been a fear of higher taxes. a fear of more regulation. there's been a fear that the

president -- and the climate. you know. >> i think the climate point you make is probably where the big difference might have been, just the tone of the -- you know, as i look at the white house, i listen to axelrod yesterday, and i liked what he was saying. but i hope that the white house will -- the campaign will get off a little bit of this 1% versus 99%, and figuring out ways to grow the economy by taxing people. or at least that's what is suggested. i don't believe that's their overall message. but the tone suggests that. i said this yesterday on one -- on a show, that if romney switches his message to, look, this is about the u.s. versus the world and how we make america more competitive, and the things you touch on, the business climate and the

investment climate -- >> i don't understand why both sides don't cling to that. because -- >> i don't know. whoever gets it first will be the one. >> that's the winning message. democrats always attack republicans. republicans always attack democrats and say, well, here is our plan, and let's compare and contrast it to what the democrats are doing. no. why don't you compare what america is doing right now with what china is doing, brazil is doing, india is doing. that's the real message for instance, we debate back and forth about corporate taxes. and democrats will say republicans want to give big corporations a break. just compare what america's tax rate is to the rest of the world. america gets that. we're in a global economy. we have the second highest corporate tax rate of any country on the planet. is that going to encourage or discourage investment? that's something that liberals, conservatives, independents, everybody gets. but it's always framed as right

versus left instead of america versus the world. >> whomever does that best first i think will be advantaged, be it romney or the president, heading into the fall. >> i think so. good interview in "the new york times" by the way. >> oh, thank you. that was fun. >> it was good. >> i think this vote on the buffett rule will be more significant than you think, because the republicans will get rid of it. and then the administration plans to take that through the election, that whole concept. and the fact that they made it worse. because they got in the way of everything he was trying to do. and he still was able to do what he did. >> you know what? you may have a point. >> yes, i do. >> but you don't, because -- >> thank you. you should have just ended it there. >> the buffett rule will be forgotten before the first jimmy buffet song is played memorial day weekend. >> the whole concept of people paying their share and putting something on the table, they have always gotten in the way of it, said no, said no to everything, and then they put out a budget which guts some of these entitlements that are important to people. they don't look good.

it doesn't work. >> two things, and joe knows i'm -- >> you know that. >> two things. the president himself, he and the first lady, two years ago according to the news reports, paid about 21% federal taxes two years ago and last year they'll pay about 26%. now the president wants to pay his fair share. he says people earning over $1 million should pay at least 30%. t >> he didn't pay 26%. >> according to "the new york times" and to "the new york post," he paid 20.9% in 2010 and 26% in 2011. that's according to that. >> i thought it was 20.5%. >> i heard 20%. >> let's just round it up. say it's $2 -- 21%. i don't blame the president. the problem is the tax code is too complicated. two, if we talk about revenue increases, the real question is we say to wealthier americans not pay more for an inefficient

government. what we ought to be saying is you look at the ryan budget. he makes cuts of veteran programs and programs for women and children is. there anything more we're willing to be asked of wealthy americans to help cover in government? don't be wrong, we all want low taxes. but if we have to pay more, shouldn't the wealthiest pay? >> sure. so, willie, are you -- i guess harold is telling us that the president paid a lower tax rate than his secretary. and that just makes me sad. >> that is correct. >> why are you making fun of that? >> the tax code needs to be reformed. i'm agreeing with you. >> i hear what you said. so the president paid a lower tax rate -- >> that's according to "the new york times" over the weekend. >> come on, man. let me talk. i'm trying to get into it with my man, he's back, and you keep interrupting -- do you see me interrupting anybody on this show? >> no, never. >> has anybody ever seen me interrupt anybody on the show? >> you're the interrupting cow. >> knock, knock. >> who's there? >> moo. >> the rate in 2011 was 20.5.

>> ok. so you're saying the president paid a lower rate than his secretary? that makes me sad. [ laughter ] >> i hold myself to the standard as well, if i had one, yes. >> i guess, mika, you pay a lower tax rate than your stylist? >> my stylist gets nothing. >> well, i'm talking about your stylist and niece. >> right. i want to get to ann romney's early birthday present when you're done bloviating. >> so did hilary rosen say something else for her early birthday present? >> no, that was her early birthday present. >> come on, man. let's just look back over the week that was. can we -- can you guys believe how much a small statement -- >> yes, i can. >> that she made on a primetime cable news show, where -- i

mean, what's the great faulkner line? signifying nothing? >> sound and the furry. fewer >> signifying nothing. >> you guys just don't get it. >> we understand it, just like everyone else. >> that one line dominated the news last week. >> yes, it did. you think contraception gets women man? this one line was like throwing a grenade into the middle of the table of any conversation. >> explain why. >> oh, come on. >> i want to understand better. >> you don't? seriously. >> explain to men watching out there. i'm dead serious. explain to us, and everybody let mika -- please, no more interrupting. it's just not right. so explain to us all, seriously, why did this just spark such outrage with women? >> because it represents a deep extremely highly emotional conflicted guilt-ridden divide between women.

and that was just stepping in it and attacking a woman. and everybody, including me, came to her defense, because there's no reason for that kind of tone right now. but it also just opened up that divide. again. >> between working women and -- women that work outside the house and women that work inside the house? >> and michelle obama and ann romney are two very different women, both who have equally valuable roles. but it's one that still causes great turmoil inside of each woman individually. >> so what was that sarah jessica parker movie that you were in? >> "i don't know how she does it." >> that is a movie, i have heard women talking about that movie, and if they are women who work outside the home, they love that movie. if they are wiomen who work inside the home raising the kids, they hate that movie. >> i don't see many movies. i have seen that one twice. >> there is a huge cultural divide in this country. >> i would argue it's more

significant than i guess the last time this many words had this much effect, which was dan quayle and murphy browne, which was more -- it was more of an isolated or less general population affected by the remark. i think mika is right. i think of all the things that have happened in the past, say, three or four weeks that might actually affect an independent voter, this argument about women has a much better chance than a lot of others. yeah. >> yeah. >> the administration did everything but put on sack cloth and ashes when she said it, and yet it still seems to be connecting to them despite the fact they have done everything they could do. >> interesting. hilary rosen, who i like very much, and i believe gets it -- she works. she has kids and she works. hilary rosen gets it. >> she stepped in it. and she knows it. >> immediately linked to

president obama as though she were valerie jarrett or something. somebody from inside the obama administration. she is a democrat, so president obama must share this point of view. but the reason as mika said it touched off such fury, and especially my wife noticed it, was because that is such a difficult decision for women to make. my wife went back to work after the first child. went back after her second. and then had to make a very, very difficult decision as someone who had worked every day of her life for 10 years to come home and be with her kids for a while. and she may go back to work, but it's not like she sitting there with her feet up. >> she is working at home. >> and hilary rosen knows that well. >> yes. it was a much larger than what hilary said. >> it's convoluted and conflicting for women. forget the argument between women or men and women about this. each woman feels deeply conflicted about this decision. >> deeply conflicted. >> but this was ann romney's introduction to a hell of a lot of people.

>> she did. she tweeted. put up her tweet, allen. she was at a fundraiser yesterday. and she said it was my early birthday present for someone to be critical of me as a mother, and that was really a defining moment, and i loved it. there's another -- there's more conversation over the weekend. one high profile obama supporter. >> one quick thing. >> sorry. >> you'll appreciate this. you know that -- >> the most -- >> the woman who has been leaped to her defense and a woman who ann identifies with, barbara bush. and if barbara bush tweeted, that's the kind of thing she would have done. there's a steel there. >> interesting. there you go. so bill maher is coming to the defense of hilary rosen. do i want to hear this? >> yeah. >> apparently, he backed her. take a look. >> the language here was perhaps

inartful or perhaps america is a society that lives to find stupid none consequential meaningless controversies and this is the new one. but what she meant to say, i think, is that ann romney has never gotten her ass out of the house to work. no one is denying that being a mother is a tough job. i remember i was a handful. ok. but, you know, there is a big difference between being a mother in that top job and getting your ass out the door at 7:00 a.m. when it's cold, having to deal with the boss, being in a workplace or even if you're unhappy you can't show it for eight hours. that is kind of a different kind of a tough thing. >> oh, god. i'll keep going. >> former obama domestic policy adviser nelly barns weighed in on bill's remarks yesterday. here's what she said. >> i listened to those comments, and my grandmother's voice came in my head. i thought about the phrase home

training. you know, the language, the sentiment, are problematic. and the campaign has -- and the president has said, look, the civility matters, the way we talk to each other matters. and they are going to have to as you said make a decision. i saw david axelrod in earlier situations when comments have been made by bill maher say i'm not going on your show. i'm backing away, distancing myself. >> this is fascinating because bill maher has said some extraordinarily insensitive things about women in the past. and the white house has ignored it. and this is something that of course the left and the right and we're talking about during the rush limbaugh blowup. >> right. >> but here notice, willie, how quickly they jumped out and distanced themselves, which tells me that they're really seeing in the polls that this does matter. and i was very -- even this week, i'm saying, god, can you

believe we talked this much about it? well, you guys are saying it really is a big deal. and it is important for people at home who look at politics sometimes as too much about policy instead of symbolism. do you remember the george hw bush got killed when he looked down at a scanner and people -- the big story was that he didn't understand what a scanner was in the grocery store. or michael dukakis in the tank. or jimmy carter and the killer rabbit. >> that was a big rabbit, though. >> that was a big rabbit. and i can't believe the rabbit attacked him. >> it did. they can be very mean. >> that one was mean. but you have all of these symbols that just don't really make any sense in the real political world. but it resonates with voters. and the white house must know, this is bad news for democrats. >> it is amazing -- >> if they don't handle it correctly. >> in this news cycle, this 24-hour news cycle we live in,

how quickly the script flips. two weeks ago, mitt romney had no chance because he had no chance with women. now hilary rosen who is tangentially linked to the obama administration swung it back the other way. we'll see how long this sticks. >> i'm glad you said it, but listen -- and chuck todd said this last week or the week before when the nbc polls came out and showed barack obama was up by 78 points. he said, republicans have screwed things up so badly over the past month, these numbers couldn't get any lower. so we already saw fox news poll that shows the race is tightening. you're going to see all the polls showing that the race is tightening. >> totally. >> it's a natural tightening. and just please, if you are a pundit at home, please do not blame this natural tightening, ok, to hilary rosen's comments. just step away from that

analysis, because it's wrong. you know, when somebody wins a nomination, john meacham, you know, you just get this natural afterglow. and that's going to happen. >> yeah. and it's a 51-49 country. in 1998 and 2008, nobody got above 53. we are not a blowout country. >> no. well, harold ford would get 64%. >> in my home. >> uh-huh. coming up, we're going to talk to the lead sponsor of the buffett tax bill. >> i thought it was the wife. you and the dogs would go for -- >> there's no need to put all of that out there. [ laughter ] >> he has no filter. congresswoman tammie baldwin will join us. also, senator sherrod brown. former senator russ feingold will be here. also, dave barry will join us onset. up next, the top stories in the politico playbook. but first, here's bill karins

with your green is universal forecast. >> ok. >> well done. >> thanks. >> well done. good morning, everyone. if you weren't paying attention and watching tv over the weekend, you missed these amazing publics of all of these tornadoes that were in the midwest. incredible stuff. in some cases, there were two tornadoes on the ground at the same time. the one that caused the most problems was the woodward, oklahoma, tornado. went through a trailer park. five fatalities with that tornado. and actually, out of the 126 tornadoes, that was the only deadly one that we had. most of the tornadoes, thankly, were out over rural areas. this is the map that shows where the tornadoes took place. mostly kansas, nebraska, and parts of oklahoma. five fatalities. 126 tornadoes. it's amazing it wasn't worse. as far as today, thunderstorms, louisiana, down along the tex coastline. a lot of heavy rain around houston. but we're not going to see tornadoes out of that. and the other story today, incredible warmth. leave the jacket at home. wear short sleeves if you can.

temperatures are already in the 60s, and it is going to be summer like in new england today. fire danger is high for those brush fires because it's so warm and been so dry lately. but this could be the first 90 degree temperatures of the season in areas of southern new england. off up here in the northwest, some rain for you. and can you believe it's going to be almost 90 today from d.c. to boston? and of course, boston, the marathon today. that will be interesting. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here.

28 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the new york times." in his first public speech as the leader of north korea, kim jong un said his top priority was to strengthen the military.

the unexpected 20-minute spieee was followed by a parade where north korea showed off what was supposed to be a new missile. he made no mention of the failed rocket launch on friday. >> yeah. look at that bouncing. that's great. >> joe, move on. >> that's pretty good, though. >> pretty good precision. yeah. from the "wall street journal," former yankee pitcher roger clemens heads back to federal court in washington today to face perjury charges. he is accused of lying under oath in 2008 when he denied using steroids or performance enhancing drugs. the first case ended in a mistrial when prosecutors showed the jury evidence that the judge had admitted evidence that was inadmissible. >> when his tongue starts, he looks like a cow. >> big licker. i find this story exhausting at this point. >> do the steroids make your mouth dry?

i'm serious. i don't know. it's so obvious that guy was lying. >> anyway, "usa today," president obama has called for a thorough investigation into allegations -- blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. ok. let's go to politico and willie. >> here you go. and that completes our coverage of that story for the day. with us now, the chief white house correspondent for politico, mike allen, who will take a look at the playbook. good morning. >> welcome back, willie. >> thanks. good to see you. the obama campaign is trotting out a new attack on mitt romney and his, quote, penchant for secrecy. what do they mean? >> that's right. david axelrod tells us they'll use this as an umbrella issue to poke romney on a bunch of issues where they want to go after him. his tax returns, his donors, and you remember that story that broke in boston where his -- -- his aides were able to buy the

hard drives out of the governor's office so they didn't go into the state archives. david axelrod said they'll use these issues to ask the questions what do we really know about mitt romney. >> and we know they raised that question in terms of the tax returns. what is mitt romney hiding? why won't he reveal himself and show his tax records to the american people? >> yeah. so we're seeing the obama campaign beginning to very methodically roll out a series of issues that they have been holding back while the primaries were underway. now they are saying that this is one of the ways that they're going to raise questions about romney at the very moment that a lot of voters are tuning in. there's a crucial period where romney gets that second chance to make a first impression, and obama is going to try and spoil it. >> mike, it's meacham. are you -- how much of this secrecy argument do you think is linked to romney's religion? is this code for the secrecy of the mormon church?

>> well, it's a question, mr. meacham, that sort of answers itself. as the obama campaign makes the case that romney is somehow weird, different, some supporters of romney will say that that is a dog whistle, that is a way to come near the religion issue. the obama campaign will tell you they're not going to touch it. they don't poll on it. they don't talk about it in focus groups because they know that it would blow up if they did and that got public. >> what do you think, john? do you think it's sort of -- >> i think it's a little bit -- if you're talking about 100,000 swing voters maybe, you're talking about getting, you know, everybody vote counts. >> the secrecy of the mormon church? >> yeah. and it is a very -- >> very secretive church. >> you can't go into the temple, right? >> even on the west side. >> not even on the west side? you go to salt lake, and i'm like, oh, that's pretty, i want to go in. and they are like, no, you're southern baptist.

>> no, no, no. >> for good reason. >> you don't believe stuff. >> we do. let me see if willie geist was listening a couple of weeks ago. >> uh-oh. >> what's tepiscopalian faith? >> it's a halfway house to atheistism. >> my twitter, i didn't believe there are hundreds of tweets coming in attacking ann romney, attacking michelle obama, attacking hilary rosen, attacking me. it's unbelievable. this issue. just go like that, and it explodes. it explodes. >> relax, ok? it's ok. it's monday. new week starting. >> and they're getting -- they are like vile, some of them. >> go home, see your kids, pet your dogs. just relax, it's going to be ok. >> third week of easter. >> what's the third week of easter? >> easter season, it's happy, it's spring.

>> i don't even know what that means. how can you be upset? >> they are hateful and filthy. >> they are hateful. most of the women that women and i dated throughout college. >> mike, i don't know what to say. what have you got? >> real quick, we have to be clear that you're free to worship in mormon churches around the country. it's just the temples, the sacred area, that we don't go into. >> mike, thank you. >> thanks so much. meacham claims to be the theologian here. >> everything i know i learned from mike allen. >> he is like the hall of fame in virginia journalism. something. >> what just happened? >> willie? >> sports is next, i'm told. >> i like that. announcer ] peope who choose more whole grain

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today is gonna be an i foimportant day for us. life. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers.

welcome back to "morning joe." time for sports. yesterday, jackie robinson day in major league baseball. every player wearing robinson's number 42. his widow, rachel, honored sunday night at yankee stadium. gives a hug there to derek jeter. by the way, at the stadium last night, look who was there? tim tebow. and sitting right behind him, dwyane wade from the miami heat who played the knicks earlier in the day. >> that yankees cap looks good on tebow. >> yankees cruising 5-1 in the

fourth. derek jeter, home run. angels pulled within three, but the new yankee dh raoul ibanez, upper deck shot. yankees win the game 11-5. >> it's over, right? >> well, the red sox. look at the red sox. red sox and rays. bottom of the second, cody ross. >> playing for fourth. >> he looks great. up over the monster. boston up 3-0. tied at 4-4. big papi drills one off the center field wall. red sox win 6-4. after that start, the yankees are 5-4. boston, 4-5, a game out of first place. >> yesterday was the first day i have seen the red sox since august. and it looks like they were really a baseball club. which is kind of nice to see them be able to rally. >> you are so mean, you guys. you are so mean to them. >> they sucked last week, but now they're good. >> that's exactly the way a man thinks. >> way too early, "morning joe" will be doing our shows live from inside fenway park.

>> that's going to be fun. are we going to be on the green monster? >> yes. wherever you want to be. three-game series with the yankees starts on friday. let's go to miami. have you seen this thing in center field? >> what is that thing? >> for god's sake, what is it? >> how horrific looking. >> it looks like it will just fall down. >> this is a sculpture in center field. the miami marlins ballpark. more on that in just a moment. it's supposed to do something when someone hits a home run. but we didn't know what it would do until yesterday. >> cleveland, a perfect spot. look at this ball. and it's deep, it's gone! light that thing up! >> oh, my gosh. >> now we know what it does.

>> that's just tacky. >> like a terrible party thing from spencer's gifts in 1990. >> it's a 71-foot structure created by the jeff coombs. there you go. >> fantastic. >> you remember -- and it's one of the few good things that the atlanta braves did back in the 1960s. >> it was great. >> but they were the first to celebrate home runs. you remember how they did it? chief nakahona. he would come out of his tee pea and dance. i don't think you can do that now. >> he probably should not have done it then either. >> right on the stolen land. >> yeah. >> what did he do the rest of

the game inside the teepea? that's what i want to know. >> i had the rest of it. >> mika's must read is next. e bg

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that's the power of all of us. that's the membership effect of american express. welcome back to "morning joe." 44 past the hour. a live look at the white house on a brilliant spring morning. >> brilliant. picked this from "the new york times." our friend bill keller writes about the sweet spot. the problem -- this is about president obama's buffett rule that is being voted on today in washington. the problem isn't that the buffett rule is necessarily a bad idea. it isn't that social darwinism is a slander on republicans. heck it may be the only darwinism that romney believes

in. the problem is that when obama thrusts these populist themes to the center of his narrative, he sounds a little desperate. the candidate who ran on hope, promising to transcend bickering and get things done, is in danger of sounding like the candidate of partisan insurgency. just as romney was the candidate of the right wing scourge, obama, a man lofty in his visions but realistic in his governance, feels unauthentic, playing a plutocrat-bashing firebrand. >> mika, what do you think? >> i think the buffett rule is a method that will be effective. >> and you think it works for him? >> i do. >> what about you? >> i don't. i have talked about this. in terms of framing fairness, in that people who make a certain amount of money should not be

paying a less percentage than perhaps the system is the right thing, but it's not going to help us grow. the country doesn't link prosperity with rich people paying taxes. no doubt that cutting veteran benefits versus allowing ultramillionaires to get away without paying taxes, sure. but if the issue is we are only going to grow if we tax people with the buffett rule, president obama won't be affected by this unless you change the capital gains. i'm not as convinced that this buffett rule is the way to go. >> give us a history of populism in politics. al gore tried it briefly in 2000 and he was hammered. it's great on the congressional level. it does not usually work, though, on a presidential level in a campaign. >> it's a good starter but not a good finisher.

whether it's william jennings brian or ed truman in '48. the only modern presidential example where it worked, where he actually won. >> and why is that? >> i think because it's part of what harold was saying. i think that people -- even if they have some class envy, they don't really want to act on it because they want -- everybody wants to be rich some day. we all say this. and now the word is fairness, to go to mika's point, that's a whole different argument. and i do think that people -- >> it resonates. >> it resonates. and i think people feel that the system has gotten out of whack. and so to some extent, this is less a populist argument than a fairness one. and i think that -- i wish it were being talked about in terms of a growth agenda. >> i do too. then it would work. >> but populism doesn't because it starts well but it doesn't work.

>> populism has not worked in the past because americans, like my family, even when my dad was unemployed for a year and a half, believed that they were going to succeed. and their parents were going to do better than them. i think this is where you and i differ. i believe despite the hardship we are going through right now that most americans in the long run remain optimistic that things are going to get better for them. i know you don't believe that. so if you don't believe that, then go with the populist argument. if you believe that america's strongest days are ahead, which i do, i really do, then you don't make this argument. i am so optimistic about the 21st century. when you look what's going to drive growth in the 21st century. we are just head and shoulders above the rest of the world. i don't know if the rest of america believes that or not. but if they do believe it, then the populist argument doesn't work. >> i think it's a winning, wonderful, hopeful message to say when you're at a podium and you're speaking to people.

but when you are those people, and you are feeling what they're feeling right now, and you are part of the long-term unemployed, which are at higher numbers than we've seen in decades, you're not feeling a lot of fairness. and you'd like some. >> first of all, i'm not at a podium, but i do know this age that we live in is going to be won by the country that has got the best technology, the best science, the best research universities. america has eight of the top 10 universities on the planet. even the chinese admit that. we're head and shoulders above everybody, in all of these categories that matter. but the question is whether americans believe that or not. and if they don't, then maybe this works. news you can't use is next. [ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st

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good afternoon. don't feed that meter. this meter's on me. with all the hundreds i've saved at progressive, this meter's on me. thank you. de nada. with all the hundreds i've saved on car insurance this year, this meter's on me. there's a catch? there's no catch. nothing but savings. thank you very much. have a great day. you, too. you're sexy. [ laughs ] oh, yes. is it finally time? i've been waiting for such a long time. >> it is. time for "news you can't use." did you see "snl"? pretty good sketch. got the gang back together. all of the republican presidential candidates getting together at a bar for a few pops. >> that was certainly a primary season to remember. >> sure was. >> there was even a time when people were saying i was a front-runner. got to thank you for that, mitt.

you were the only candidate who could ever make me look exciting. >> you're the only candidate who could make me look gay friendly. >> nah. >> there you go. >> great, thank you. and i have placed your tip in this envelope. make sure you give it to your husband when you get home. he'll know best what to do with it. >> and don't spend it on birth control! >> yeah. cheers. >> hope y'all weren't reminiscing without me. >> hey, it's rick perry. hey, rick. >> there was even a time when i was a front-runner. i might have won the dang thing if i didn't take a deuce every time i opened my mouth. >> come on, michel. show us the "newsweek" face. >> all right, fine. >> yay! >> in the beginning, i was all convinced this economy was 9-9-9. by the end, i had 999 problems and the [ bleep ] was all of them. >> i love. it it's a rapster reference. all right.

>> gingrich is here. >> oh. >> uh-oh. >> i can't believe you are still in the race. i heard his campaign is completely out of money. >> ah, man, look, he is stealing nuts. >> i can't believe none of us could beat you. >> and i can't believe it took so long to win. hey, one more time. ♪ this campaign was the time of my life ♪ >> you miss bill hader's rick perry. best argument to have rick perry in the race. >> did you see the pictures of secretary of state hillary clinton over the weekend getting down? >> as she should. >> people caught her in a bar. what are the kids taking pictures with now? >> leave her alone. she's fantastic. >> 12 of her friends and a small security detail to a bar. >> take the picture down, tj. ok. let's roll through them. >> there she is dancing a bit, having a good time.

>> how long do we have to have those up there? >> not the first time we have seen her kick back and relax. remember her dancing in puerto rico at the end of the 2008 campaign? she was there, she cleaned up, had a little fun toward the end there. it was all but wrapped up. end of may, dancing, having a beer. earlier in the campaign, crown point, indiana, doing sphots wih the people. >> she was on fire. >> i'll have to have her try some of that lithuanian vodka that my dad has. >> some good clean fun there. >> what are you thinking? >> i don't know about that. >> come on, now. >> stupid, stupid, stupid. beyond stupid, stupid. >> come on. seriously? >> embarrassing. >> i'm sorry. i thought -- willie, i think you agree with me, we still live in a country where last time i checked, you're innocent until proven guilty. ok? >> do you know something we don't know, mika?

>> judge not, lest you be judged. she hates the bible. she hates america. [ laughter ] >> willie, what's next? >> it's called diplomacy, mika. coming up next, best-selling author and combat veteran wes moore. >> i guess you don't like combat veterans either, do you, mika? >> i like them very much. also chuck todd up next. ♪ hey, dad, you think i could drive? i'll tell you what -- when we stop to fill it up. ♪ ♪ [ son ] you realize, it's gotta run out sometime. [ male announcer ] jetta tdi clean diesel. the turbo that gets 42 miles per gallon. that's the power of german engineering.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's kind of a warm day in new york city. >> it's going to be a hot day. >> sizzling. >> look at that picture. it looks like a summer haze is rising. >> ok. >> you expect to hear the loving spoonful coming in. >> john meacham and harold ford jr. are still with us. and wes moore is joining us. >> do you hate combat veterans too? >> no, i don't. >> and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. >> how is it going, buddy? >> i'm looking forward to that horrible, awful hazy day down here as well. welcome to summer, spring. >> washington, d.c. >> washington exists? >> do we get 10 days of spring? i think that's how it works. >> ok. >> washington looks beautiful. you guys don't suffer like we suffer in new york. >> exactly.

it's tough. chuck, speaking of suffering, poor hilary rosen. it's been a rough week for her. and i started this show talking about how i couldn't believe that that one comment made on a primetime cable news show just pretty much dominated the weekend. and political discussions. and everybody jumped in, mika especially, saying, well, there's a reason -- and as john said, this actually may be an issue that sticks that we're still talking about a couple of months from now. why is that? >> well, i don't know if we will. actually, i don't buy that. i actually think what we're in for is what the -- i think this was an example of what the next couple of months are going to look like. i think you are going to have an attempt by both campaigns to try to do these manufactured controversies. you know, to take something and try to drive it into the mainstream. i think part of it is that they

know that about the only thing that could catch fire in the mainstream media before the convention and before the vp pick -- i do think the fall campaign will actually be serious. i think the next couple of months are going to be the silly season. of sorts. and that, you know, this last week, it was about this comment by hilary rosen. next week it could be about something else, you know, who knows what issues. we know that anything can happen overheard at a fundraiser, this and that. that's what i feel like the next couple of months will be like. just the rhythm of this campaign. >> starting gun, as mike murphy put it. all right. can we move on to afghanistan with wes here? >> we have wes here, yeah. >> local officials in afghanistan say brazen military attacks on the country's capital is now over after nearly 18 hours of fighting there. coordinated attacks rocked the city on sunday.

a taliban spokesman says it's just an opening shot to the spring offensive. targets in three eastern provinces also came under attack. american officials are praising the response by afghan security forces. still, the sophisticated attacks demonstrate the challenges ahead as the u.s. prepares to withdraw all combat troops by the end of 2014. >> boy. wes, we've been talking about at least for four years the need for the united states to withdraw from afghanistan. this is not going to be pretty. do you think we're going to make it to 2014? or do you think we may start a little earlier? >> well, first, i think it's important to understand that 2014 is a relatively artificial date. it was a date essentially initially proposed by president karzai and that the international community eventually fell in line. but i think what happened this weekend is about much more than just the largest coordinated attack in afghanistan history,

which it was. and also about the beginning of a fighting season, which it is. it's also about the taliban showing the afghan government that even though you will have over 300,000 trained afghan security members by the end of the year, that's still not going to be enough. this is about negotiating power. because everyone understands that as teams begin to move out, this is going to be some kind of negotiated settlement between the taliban and the afghan government. so everyone is trying to put up their best face to say as we're going through this negotiation process, understand we are not playing with a weak hand. >> the taliban is unpopular in afghanistan, right? because we always talk about the taliban as the alternative government to karzai. but they have never been popular in their own country, have they? >> they have never been popular. and it's interesting because the taliban -- this is not a dynamic where people feel lukewarm about the taliban. either there say direct hatred of the taliban or people are passionate about them because they feel like they benefited from the taliban rule. that's why when you look at the

future of afghanistan, the future of afghanistan without the taliban having some form of say, doesn't really exist. i think that all of the international forces understands that. nato and the u.s. understands that. and even the afghan government understands that. but what that looks like is a thing i think they are wrestling with right now. >> and, chuck todd, we're not going to hear a lot about afghanistan on the campaign trail, are we? because you have the president who is going to keep talking tough. he tripled the number of troops in afghanistan. he has extended the fighting there. and then have you mitt romney who wants him to be even tougher. so this issue is -- i mean, if mitt romney were a traditional conservative, and was talking about bringing the troops home, we'd have a debate. but we're not going to have a debate here, are we? >> no, i don't think we will. it's going to pop up in about six weeks at the nato conference, that it's now the united states' turn to host. it will be held in chicago. leon panetta already broke the news by accident, the defense

secretary, a few months ago that they are going to speed up the timetable for starting to pull back in troops. that was supposed to be the big announcement in may. again, defense secretary scooped the president there a little bit. and went public. but there is going to be some form of that. and the road forward. what i've been fascinated to watch with mitt romney on afghanistan is that he has been all over the place on this issue. you know, at one point early on in 2011, he was talking like somebody aware of the public's war fatigue. later, it's as if the more hawkish members of his party think lindsey graham and john mccain got to him and he started saying, no, no, no, you can't have an artificial timetable. you can't pull these folks back too soon. so he has been walking a line here that strikes me as, one that, he is aware of the war fatigue out there and that's bipartisan, by the way, across the board, and at the same time he has advisers who are very

much more of the neoconservative line of thinking when it comes to afghanistan and all of these international conflicts. >> and, john meacham, obviously right now lbj back in the news. all over the place because -- >> "newsweek." >> "the new yorker" and "the new york times" magazine. mika's magazine, as the kids are calling it in the streets right now. but you compare 1968 and a war that just went terribly wrong with 2012 and a war that's going terribly wrong. there's such a huge disconnect. that failed war pulled lbj out of the race. this war that just keeps dragging on and on is not even a second thought for most americans. >> well, i'm going to vastly, vastly oversimplify this and say -- >> thank you. >> the difference is the draft.

i don't think there's a whole hell of a lot -- it may be oversimplified. but does anybody think we would have the deployments we have now in afghanistan if there were a selective service system as there was in effect during vietnam? do you think so? >> not at all. not at all. and in addition to that, what this means, the fact that we have people doing multiple deployments, we have such a small percentage of the population taking on the lion's share of the burden of the war fighting is that the wars will continue even after the fighting stops. and what i mean by that is what happens to the veterans once we come back home. there was an interesting piece this weekend talking about the fact that every about day and a half or so on average, we lose an american soldier. and it was afghanistan and iraq. now it's just afghanistan. every day and a half. but every 80 hours, we lose a veteran to suicide. every 80 hours. and so this is a dynamic that we are going to be dealing with. this is not just in the short-term but in the long-term.

>> and one of the things that i think is -- if you can find any positive view of that is for world war ii, for korea, for vietnam, a lot of these were undiagnosed cases, right? so a lot of families dealt with the post traumatic stress syndrome without ever knowing what it was. and so the more attention we can give this the more care -- >> and christoff did that yesterday in his column. we need to get him back here. moving back to politics, there is a vote today in the senate on the buffett rule. and i'm actually reading coverage from different websites and news organizations that might have a different point of view about this. >> that says white house.com. >> it does not. it says fox news. >> oh, i'm sorry. i couldn't see from here. >> and, you know, it really is getting a lot of coverage on the right as being a job killer and a political gimmick. >> right. >> i -- oh, ok.

alex just pulled ryan sprevis talking about this yesterday. >> why shouldn't millionaires pay more in taxes? >> part of the problem here is that we're not just talking about millionaires. we are talking about small businesses, s corporations. we're talking about a president who promised that he would get the economy back on track. this is obama's strategy. look over here at the shiny object here, don't look at the big picture, an economy on the brink that i didn't do a thing about and made things worse. that's what this is about. >> ok, harold. so answer the question, ignoring everything that the rnc chairman said. i'm just saying because i want to keep you focused, and i want you to answer the question that candy asked. why shouldn't millionaires pay more in taxes? >> they should. we should reform the entire code. >> so you support the buffett rule? >> there's a big difference between the buffett rule and reforming the tax code.

i don't quite understand how you -- if people enjoy the majority if not all of their income from investment income, you have to raise the capital gains rate because they -- you have to raise the dividend rates. i don't know how you -- i don't know how the buffett rule addresses that fully. again, as i've stated time and time again, my concern, and i think john probably articulated it best and more artfully, i'd like to see a full growth agenda put on the table. no doubt the fairness argument around who should be taxed and how much should be a part of it. but the country wants more than anything for high wage jobs to come back to the country and more investment from around the world. so i don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that we need -- from a fairness standpoint that wealthier people in this country ought to pay more in taxes. but if you're paying more in taxes and the debt is going up, you're paying more in taxes and our education and welfare network aren't being fixed, that's a legitimate question to ask for people whatever rate you're paying and whatever tax revenue you're getting. >> that's great in terms of a broader idea. but if we can't even get this

done, seriously. isn't this an example ultimately and won't the republicans be held to that? >> i think we should pass something that says everybody from birth to 5 years old ought to get an early childhood education because it's the greatest determinant in how you do in elementary, middle school, and high school. if they are going to pass something in the senate, they should ensure that that every parent ought to have that for their kids. that would have a bigger impact on fairness, on paying down the debt. my only point is, you can't take it piece-by-piece. and i don't think the buffett rule will do well in the senate for the reasons i have stated. >> and it's a larger point of fairne fairness. i don't think anyone is arguing that raising taxes on a small percentage of the population will fix the problems. >> then why won't it pass? >> i think people want a bigger answer. >> chuck todd, what is the white house strategy behind the

buffett rule? >> the buffett rule is about two things. i don't think you'd see this big push by the white house if mitt romney weren't the nominee. they want to highlight romney's personal wealth, personal income, and all of those things as a way of trying to create the disconnect that we have already seen in some polling that he has with working class voters and working class voters i think are a big swing vote in certain states like ohio. the second part of this push on the buffett rule is, you have an incumbent -- a sitting president running for re-election who is running on raising taxes. the bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year. he has said it. it is not something you see sitting presidents do. in fact, you arguably could say it hasn't been done since 1948 when harry truman. and if you're going to try to run and if you're going to try to make the tax -- hey, the bush tax cuts are going away argument

for the wealthiest, then strike a position like this first on the buffett rule to try to neutralize what normally is a very tough thing to sell in an election year, which is raising taxes. >> do you know how many people in the country are like warren buffett in the country in terms of wealth? >> how many? >> maybe three. and two of them are in this city, and one of them is our mayor. warren buffett is worth $50 billion. >> but who would be affected by this? >> but when you use the name the buffett rule, you have guys making $500,000 or $1 million a year being compared to warren buffett. it's not fair. a woman making $1.5 million a year, $600,000 a year, is being compared to warren buffett. at the end of the day, that comparison doesn't stick. >> but the reality doesn't stick either, the way that the taxes are doled out now. >> but the code needs to be reformed. the president who wants this bill to be passed, he has not paid 30% federal taxes in the last two years.

why? not because he didn't want to but because the code is structured in a way. tell me this, what does the buffett rule -- how do you mandate that someone pay 30% under the buffett rule? >> well, obviously, you have to raise, obviously -- >> but the buffett rule doesn't do that. >> i know. you have to raise capital gains taxes. chuck todd, the white house, you have the president's tax returns out. he pays anywhere from 20% to 26% in taxes. >> right. >> are they concerned about that? >> well, they are a little bit except they don't make $1 million a year. the whole point of the buffett rule is it's about people whose income is a million or more. so they would draw that line. but of course -- >> two years ago, they did, chuck. >> on the book royalties. their tax rate is still lower than the -- than what they are advocating and lower for the wealthiest.

and so, you know, it is a punch line that he uses in his own speeches when he says, hey, i should be paying a little more in taxes. when he says that. so i don't know if it undercuts per se, but it certainly exemplifies. >> do you expect the president to continue this populist line of attack because of the person he's running against? >> i think this is about the person he's running against. that's exactly what i think this is about. this is about uniquely mitt romney. i don't think if there were another republican nominee without this wealth you would be seeing this same sort of extra oomph in the population. why? because i've seen and i've stalked to strategists. romney has unique problems in places that the president should be vulnerable. and that's in ohio, that's even in indiana. romney's numbers are a little bit weaker than they should be. i don't believe that indiana ultimately will be a battle ground state, but he has underperformed there in some numbers. why he has struggled to get michigan truly on the battle

ground map, something that the romney folks want to do, they believe it's this issue of romney and his wealth and the perceived disconnect with the average person in those states. >> chuck, i have a quick question then. this should not be a surprise to mitt romney. mitt romney has probably seen this coming for years, that this would be the line of attack against him. but he still seems so woefully prepared to address it. how does this dynamic work? >> this is the head shake that i have -- when i have talked to some republicans who are sort of close to the romney world. not involved specifically in this campaign. a staffer. sits there and scratches his head and going, what was he doing with a swiss bank account? what was he thinking about expanding his house out in california? they are saying, wait a minute. what were you doing? think about these things. >> what is wrong with you? you know, that old will ferrell line from, what was he doing? what is he doing? seriously. what was he doing? >> the swiss bank account i think is the most -- i don't care where you live in the

country. a middle class family -- >> hold on a second. that's number one. number two, and i'm dead serious about this. >> oh, no, what? >> if i'm running for president, no, i'm dead serious. >> i don't want to hear it. >> and i have, what, $200 million, $250 million, i wait until after i'm elected to build my mansion in la jolla with a car garage. and i'm dead serious. >> car elevator. >> yeah, the car elevator. chuck, that speaks to two things. first of all, just the fact that he's just politically tone deaf. and secondly, he has nobody around him that can tell him what to do. >> well, actually, the irony on the california house is that they haven't started it. and it was delayed. and i had heard -- you know, this had been buzzing for a couple of years. and somebody told him, hey, don't do it now. and they did shelf it, is my understanding. remember, these are leaked plans. you know, they did file the plans and all of those things. but they haven't started it. and so, you know, political

common sense did win the day. but not soon enough on that. and of course, you know, by the way, the car elevator another one of those manufactured controversies which by the way we'll hear a lot more about all of these. >> does he still have a swiss bank account? >> harold, i'm with you. i think that is the -- because in three words, you can make your point. you just made it. three words. and that's you don't want to be -- you don't want to have an easy description like that where you can have almost like a catch phrase that is -- says what you want to say in your message. >> and you guys don't think the buffett rule will resonate? please. >> what does he have, an elevator for cars? we have that in my public garage in philadelphia. 10th and 5th. i don't have that. >> not quite the same thing. >> eight out of nine americans don't know anything about new

york city, guys. talk about it right here. >> oh, my god. >> you can't let go. >> never. >> you gnaw on things. >> you know new yorkers, and you just can't stand it. >> you new yorkers booed tim tebow. how do you feel about that now? >> you know what? last time i checked, the first amendment applies in new york city as well. >> you booed the pope. >> and tim tebow has very broad shoulders. he's fine. >> ok. you all are weird. chuck todd, thank you. >> thank you so much. >> we'll see you on "the daily rundown" right after "morning joe" live from washington. up next, senator sherrod brown and tammie baldwin will join the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] while others are content to imitate, we'll continue to innovate. the lexus rx. why settle for a copy when you can own the original?

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now we have democratic

senators from ohio. senator sherrod brown and democratic congresswoman from wisconsin, representative tammie baldwin, lead sponsor in the house for the buffett rule. we are hearing it's a gimmick, it won't do anything to take care of the deficit. what is the purpose of the buffett rule? bottom line it. >> fairness. the bottom line is it's about fairness. it's tax season, so people have been preparing their returns and talking about their marginal and effective tax rate. when they see there are people who make over $1 million paying a lower tax rate, they are furious. they are saying the system is rigged. there's two sets of rules. one for them and a special set for the wealthiest among us. so it's really a matter of fundamental fairness >> harold ford jr. says unless you move up the capital gains tax rate, warren buffett is still not going to be paying over 20% even if the buffett

rule passes. >> that's not true. there's like a flat tax, 30% for anyone who makes over $1 million per year. >> does that include capital gains? >> yes, it does. >> so makes is not wages? >> pardon? >> makes is not wages? >> correct, correct. and it deals with this special exemption that's been built into the individual tax code called carried interest that hedge fund managers enjoy and others. where compensation isn't taxed at the, you know, rates that the rest of us pay. and that's what is so important about it. it's just a matter of fundamental fairness. >> you're running for the senate, aren't you? >> i am. >> who are you running against? >> there's four candidates in the republican primary, and the primary isn't until august 14. so i'm waiting to see who the republican primary electorate advances in that election. >> and you've cleaned out the democratic field? >> i have cleaned out the democrat igfield. >> that a girl. i like it.

>> just wiped them out. >> just full speed ahead. >> fantastic. >> so talk about the buffett rule. is it a political gimmick? >> no, it's not a political gimmick. people like jamie baldwin and i have for a long time supported something like that. we didn't call it the buffett rule but more tax fair business. you look at hedge fund managers in this city and other places are paying 15%, and there's not -- you know, capital gains is about risk. they are not even taking risk and they are paying 15%. when you see the last decade how the middle class has struggled, and, you know, not really gotten wage gains, and then they see the richest people in the country not paying taxes -- >> senator, what does it really accomplish, though? i get it. i think it's a winning message. it really makes sense to me. but what does it really -- the numbers, what do they accomplish? >> well, it helps with the deficit. >> not much. >> but the biggest thing we need to do is be more aggressive in job creation. one of the pieces of legislation that tammie has worked on in the

house, and i'm the sponsor in the senate, is the china currency bill, to level the playing field that, american manufacturers and american workers are at a distinct disadvantage because china has the currency system. and we passed it bipartisan in the house. it was the biggest bipartisan jobs bill the senate passed in the last year. passed with 70 plus votes. we are just asking speaker boehner on move on it. it will create as many as 2 million jobs. and there is no cost to taxpayers to do this. and it starts bringing in huge revenues because you have more people working, especially in manufacturing and good paying industrial jobs that have all kinds of spinoff benefits. >> and by the way, here is the latest gallup poll on the buffet rule. 60% of americans favor the buffett rule. 37% oppose it. so let me ask you, senatorial candidate tammie baldwin, obviously over the weekend, more bad news out of afghanistan.

should the united states get out of afghanistan before 2014? should we expedite the withdrawal? >> yes, and i have been calling for that for a long time. the mission that i voted to authorize in 2001 in my mind was completed in short order. >> right. >> when i travelled to afghanistan in august of 2010, i was very, very proud of our troops. but they are doing a different mission fundamentally today. >> don't most people in wisconsin and across america understand we sent our troops over there to kill terrorists and not engage in nation building? >> they understand that, and i think increasingly we see the agreement that it is time to bring our brave men and women home from afghanistan, honor the work they have done, but, you know, not only because it's the right thing to do, but also because of the way it is going to affect our economy if we bring them home. >> speaking of wisconsin, i was speaking to russ feingold about this. he was one of the few people that was pressuring the

president, or maybe it was three years ago, not to triple the number of troops and to get out of afghanistan. should democratic senators and congressmen put pressure on this president to get our troops home faster? >> i think a lot of us have and will continue to. the president is getting pulled the other way by the sort of john mccain and lindsey grahams in the senate that say double down in many ways. i think we lost our way in afghanistan many years ago when we did the right thing by going in. we lost our way when we went into iraq. you know all that history. it's time that we -- the irony of this is we can't pass a transportation bill to build infrastructure in our country. again, the senate has passed a bipartisan -- >> we are rebuilding in afghanistan but we have trouble rebuilding america. >> we are spending money rebuilding afghanistan. and it's time we do highways and bridges in cleveland and the interstate in columbus and do what we need to do at home. >> are you going to name every town? >> i am. >> but i'll get there.

>> suddenly youngstown doesn't need anything? >> i was just in youngstown and toledo. >> you sure didn't mention it. >> we have a couple of bridges to build in wisconsin as well. senator, you're both incumbents. but the approval rating for congress is somewhere around the margin of error, right? it's possible there are more people who disapprove of congress than live in the united states at some point. >> that's probably not quite mathematically possible, but go on with your question. >> what can y'all do to show that you're worth your salt? >> well, i think it actually relates very closely to what we were saying about the buffett rule. people see the system as being rigged. they see too many people who are afraid to stand up to powerful interests, and they see people who are leaders in their pockets. and they want leaders who will fight for them, fight for average, hard-working middle class people. and, you know, that's what they're looking for right now and not seeing enough of it.

>> and we see major bipartisan jobs initiatives, the transportation bill, our china currency bill, pass the senate with 70 plus votes, the speaker won't schedule it because the majority of his party opposes it. even though they would both pass the house overwhelmingly, because almost all of the democrats and 1/3 of the republicans would vote for it, speaker boehner won't schedule it because half the republicans don't like it. that's why they don't like the congress. >> senator, i hate to step into this again. >> don't. >> no, i'm going to step into it. so, you know, last week after hilary rosen made her comment, i was talking about ellen west's comment that there is 78 to 81 communists in the congress. and a lot of my republican brothers, why did you bring that up? we don't have to apologize. i remember you made an unfortunate reference comparing republicans to no, sir nazis. >> really, i didn't. >> but you were immediately --

you were hammered by everybody on the right. you immediately apologized. dick durbin said the same thing back in i think 2004. he apologized. do you think allen west should have to apologize? making a communist reference to republicans? >> well, i'm not really in that. of course he should. when people say something they kind of wish they could take their words back, and we all do from time to time. i think you quickly apologize and move on. but, you know, i don't quite understand the way he thinks. but i don't really know him, so i don't know. >> yeah, yeah. but i just want to confirm, there were some conservatives who may have brought up the fact that you made a mistake, and you made that reference, right? >> some just did again, so -- >> and you apologized. no, no, and my point was, we all say things in the heat of battle. and we get called out on it, and we apologize. >> sometimes we drop an f-bomb by mistake. >> i would never do that. and sometimes people don't push

the button on the seven-second delay. >> you can blame it on someone else. >> the difference is, we don't get the seven-second delay. >> you need one. >> they're awesome. >> yeah. >> it's a good thing in life. >> for some in life, right. >> so do you think the buffett rule passes? does it pass the house? >> well, i have called on our leadership to schedule it for a vote. it hasn't been scheduled yet. but i question, what do they have to fear? let's see where the numbers of the house of representatives stand on this issue. this issue of fairness. >> yeah. all right. there you go. and that's what it's about at the end. >> senator sherrod brown and congresswoman tammie brown, good luck to you. >> thank you. >> great to see you. >> go tribe. still ahead, former democratic senator russ feingold of wisconsin will join us. keep it right here on "morning joe." >> this is wisconsin day.

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it's going to be a hot day in new york city. almost summer like. temperatures could approach 90 degrees. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm meteorologist bill karins. of course, we dealt with the tornadoes over the weekend. today, it's a heat wave up the east coast.

we're going to see numerous record highs shattered. and the drought conditions keep getting worse. we need it to rain desperately. we'll see a lot more in the way of brush fires today, especially there in southern new england. right now the rainfall deficits for the year are running about five to eight inches behind. this is on the heels of last year where we had record rain. temperatures already soaring into the 60s. and this afternoon, near 90 degrees today from boston to hartford to new york to philadelphia. in boston, it's patriots day. red sox game this afternoon. no big deal with the heat there. but the boston marathon will be run in one of the hottest days ever in the marathon's history. they are actually telling runners that haven't trained in warm weather not to run. they are very concerned with heat exhaustion. in the southeast, we'll give you some thunderstorms today. watch out from houston to new orleans. a little damp in the pacific northwest. where the tornadoes struck this weekend, it looks dry and calm for much of the upcoming week. coming up, lisa myers with

more on the spending scandal at the gsa. we'll be right back. ♪ there's a place i dream about ♪ ♪ where the sun never goes out ♪ ♪ and the sky is deep and blue ♪ ♪ won't you take me american flight 280 to miami is now ready for boarding. ♪ there with you

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43 past the hour. a gorgeous look at capitol hill in washington, d.c. a congressional hearing is set to begin there this morning. >> there's no haze in the sky there. >> no. >> chuck todd, i don't know what he's talking about. >> he is always complaining. >> we suffer in new york so much. look how pretty that is. and look at the hazy shot of new york, willie. it's the great hazout of 2012. >> oh, my gosh. >> just can't even breathe looking at that. i need an oxygen mask. >> what was the statistics he cited? eight out of 10 americans don't care about new york city. >> he hates new york. he hates it. >> i have never met anyone who

hates new york like him. >> it's the city of new york. how do you hate new york? all roads lead to new york. seriously. backwater town like washington, chuck todd. what are you talking about? it's a swamp. >> i could see how long this goes, but we would be here for hours. joe can literally say nothing for hours. >> so, anyway -- ok. a congressional hearing is set to begin this morning on the general service administration, their spending practices including a lavish conference in vegas complete with a clown and a mind reader. nbc's senior investigative correspondent lisa myers is joining us live from washington with more. >> we love washington, lisa. >> hey, mika and joe. well, this hearing today will feature a government official who's taking the fifth rather than answer questions about what happened in las vegas. what's more, top gsa officials appointed by president obama will have to explain why after they learned of the lavish conference in vegas they

nevertheless gave the official in charge a bonus. >> life of a rock star ♪ ♪ and there's no place better ♪ than gsa >> the conference that investigators say cost taxpayers almost $1 million included rap videos, a mind reader, and $1,200 for shuttles to take staffers to party on the vegas strip. the gsa official in charge was jeff neely. >> i think i pretty much promised to deliver an over the top, unforgettable team building experience. how did we do on that one? [ cheers and applause ] >> but neely has told congressional investigators he'll take the fifth today rather than answer questions. >> taxpayers need to know that what they see in those videos is in fact to a great extent the tip of the iceberg. there's a culture of waste that when people misbehave, they are seldom punished for it. >> emails show that even after

senior gsa officials were alerted to excessive spending in vegas, administrator martha johnson personally approved a $9,000 bonus for neely, and vegas was only part of the story. an even longer conference was held in 2010 in palm springs, california. for gas interns. the awards dinner cost taxpayers as much as $100 a head. it was held at this resort, where the lounge had been named one of "playboy" magazine's 20 greatest bars. >> it's got to stop. it's a wasteful abuse of taxpayer dollars. >> reporter: there were other outrageous costs. five gsa officials went to hawaii for a week for a one-hour ribbon cutting. $330,000 to move one official from denver to hawaii, and gsa invented awards. because if there were awards at an event, they could stick

taxpayers with the tab for food. one was called the jackass award. >> when americans see that the people being paid with their taxpayer dollars are squandering and wasting it, it just increases people's contempt for government. >> now, we reached out to nee he's lawyer who did not return our calls. the white house called the spending spree a gross misuse of tax dollars and says decisive action has been taken. so far, three gsa officials, including the administrator, have been fired or resigned and five more are on administrative leave. >> lisa myers, thank you very much. thank you for your patience this morning. and thank you for the idea, jackass award. perfect. >> first annual. >> first of all, i'm humbled. [ laughter ] >> don't forget to thank your wife. >> susan, thank you for sticking with me. but it paid off. willie, a couple of things. the greatest scandal is, did you see the guy who was running this? >> yeah.

the red shirt and the bow tie. >> the red shirt and the bow tie. that's the biggest scandal. who wears -- >> i thought that was the clown for the party. >> i want to know a mind reader, how it works. do it for me, willie. read my mind. >> seriously, though, i love the nbc news package. first of all, look at that. who does that? this is a scandal! i'm sure "the new york times" is going to kick me around for saying this too, for commenting on fashion. but that's the real scandal here. but notice lisa's package. they don't give us this kind of money on morning joe to do this. look at the money. >> do you know what that is? it's "today show" cash. [ laughter ] >> they called up steve rattner and said, can we just take a shot inside your bathtub? >> this is rattner's bathtub. >> exactly. >> you just turn on the jets without the water, and that's what happens. >> exactly. >> coming up next -- >> what's my mind saying right now? >> go to break. look who's coming up next? >> i know. he is adorable.

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real madrid played with athletico madrid. >> they have been a bit erratic this year. >> it's ecstasy! >> astonishing, this is not just a dream, it's a wet dream of epic proportions. >> let's bring in roger bennett, roger, he just kept going, one sexual reference after another. >> that was the great ray hudson, and i've got to tell you that was a toned down ray hudson. >> there's no way we'll be able to explain to everybody what the game meant this weekend. >> the semifinal. >> the semifinal between liverpool and madrid, you're

going for the fa cup, which is the championship of england. >> liverpool and the red socks. aberto aberton--look at this, a self-inflicted equalizer, it was the scurrilous manny flores. >> and look at that, justin set him up. he could not have set him up with a better pass. >> the absolutely fabulous finish. >> with a beer in his left hand. >> and a pie in his right. they will always find a way to win. >> it's heart breaking. >> but to be an aberton fan is to have your heart broken. >> it was like being a red sox

fan before 2004. our being from kosovo and the battles in the 21st century. liverpool filled up wembley. the next day two london teams on the other side of the semis are there and they can't even fill up the stadium. >> they didn't want to see the agreements of this game. the first one was cane killing able. here was the controversial moment of the game. the ball didn't cross the line, the referee said that was a goal, everybody in every bar in america who was watching saw on the replay that it didn't. >> is that a replay? >> they don't have replay, it's a massive, massive issue. >> yesterday was a great example of that.

>> they destroy you. >> look at this shot. look at this shot. it is a screwball, willie, seriously, it's a knuckle screwball, it's impossible to defend against. >> that ball traveled far enough to become the envy of the north korean space program. they whacked in three goals with 30 minutes to go. to be powerless in the face of evil. i haven't watched that since i saw germany invade poland. >> i'm going to be there, but as you said in an e-mail to me, only football can europeunite f and sons, i suffer with liverpool, we may end up in 10th place, but we may have two cups.

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i can't think of a time when it was more important for us to defeat, when it comes to president, with respect to barack obama. i think he has been an unmitigated disaster for the country. i think to be in a position where he gets four more years in the white house. both with respect to policy would be a huge, huge disappointment. >> good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast, welcome back to "morning joe" as we look at new york city. >> dick cheney, he just launched

full in there, saying that barack obama was an unmitigated disaster. >> i don't think the white house team is surprised by the vice president's assessment. bin laden is dead, gm is up, unemployment is coming down, a health care bill ambitious, part of it works, a lot of it works, some of it doesn't work. >> cheney made the case -- the vice president's making the case that the president shouldn't be re-elected. i'm making the case that the president should be re-elected. if mitt romney puts dick cheney out in front -- >> dick cheney, you're doing a re-elect commercial. bin laden's dead-- >> uh-huh. >>let narrow this down to three. >> gm is alive, and --

>> the economy's coming back, slowly, but coming back. >> america is coming back. >> and i gave it to you a second ago. >> i'm saying let's narrow this down to three, so the next time we do this, you can say -- so you heard the words, i think you go, if you're barack obama, you said bin laden is dead, gm is alive, and america's on its way back. what do you say? >> although with the slowly. you can't say it's predawn in america. >> you have to be careful in overstating. at the same time the president inherited a lot and he knew it and he's turned this around. >> what do you think? >> you should say, i think joe biden has been saying this, bin laden's dead and detroit is alive. so you get the statement. >> bin laden is dead, detroit's

alive and america's best days. >> geithner opened fire yesterday on fox. >> the choice in this election is between an economy that produces a growing middle class and gives people a chance to get ahead and their kids a chance to get ahead. we are on where fewer and fewer people is doing very, very well and everybody else is running faster and faster just to keep pace. >> what would our slogan be? >> oh. >> peggy said that. about a year ago. >> you made it worse. >> i made it worse. i think it could, i think that is everything the republicans do from now through the election should all flow into that phrase, he made it worst.

he took a bad debt, he made it worse. you can go through it, but that's really the big battle here, did barack obama make things worse or did he stop america from falling over a clip? and how america answers that question on the first tuesday in november determining who's elected. >> right. but a what if scenario, do you think things would be radically different if mccain had won? >> i personally do. i personally do. i don't think -- i certainly don't think congress would have been distracted by the health care bill, i don't think they would have been distracted by cap and trade. i think there would have been more of a focus on jobs. and i think the general tone's set for big and small business

alike would have incouraged more -- there's been a fear that the president just doesn't get small business and big business. you asked me, i have yet to make the case for john mccain. i do think less so because of legislation, specific legislation and more so because the $2 trillion. >> i think the climate point you make, i think that's where the big difference might have been. just the tone of the -- as i look -- i listened ee eed to ax yesterd yesterday. the tone suggests that. i said this yesterday on a show that if romney switches his message to look, this is about

the u.s. versus the world, and how do we make america more competitive, you touch on the business climate and the investment climate. >> i don't understand why both sides don't cling to that. that's the winning message. democrats always attack republicans, republicans always attack democrats. why didn't you compare what america's doing right now with what china's doing, what brazil's doing, what india's doing, that's the real message. like for instance we debate back and forth about corporate taxes and democrat also say republicans want to give big corporations a break and republicans -- just compare what america's corporate tax is to the rest of the world. on the global economy we have the second highest tax rate of any company on the planet. is that going to discourage --

that's something that liberals, conservatives, independents everybody gets, but it's always framed as right versus left. >> i think it's going to be an advantage to the president heading into the fall. good interview in the "new york times," by the way. >> thank you, it was fun. i think this vote on the buffett rule is going to be more significant than you think, because the republicans will get rid of it and the administration plans to take that through the election, that whole concept, and the in fact that they made it worse because they got in the way of everything he was trying to do. >> you may have a point. >> yes, i do. >> that buffett rule will be forgotten before the buffett sole judge is played for labor day weekend. >> they have always gotten away

with it, no to everything, they put out a budget that guts some of these entitlements that are important to people. >> the president himself, he and the first lady, two years ago, according to the news reports paid at 21% of federal taxes. now the president wants to pay his fair share, he's saying that people who earn over a million dollars should pay 30%. >> you pay -- according to the "new york times" and the "new york post," he paid 20.9% in 2010 and he paid 26% in 2011. >> i heard it was 20%, let's say it's 21, and 26, the president has made over a million dollars. the problem is the tax code is too complicated. two, if we talk about revenue

increases which democrats do, we ought to be saying you look at the ryan budget, he makes cuts for veterans ---don't get me wrong, we all want low taxes, but we have have to pay a little more, they're the ones who should pay. >> the president said a lower tax rate than his secretary and that just makes me sad. >> the tax code needs to be reformed. >> i get what you said. i'm just sad. is that true, so the president played a lower tax rate? come on, let me talk, i'm trying to get into my time and with my man, you keep interrupting. do you see me interrupting anything on this show? >> you're the interrupting cat.

>> knock, knock. >> the rate in 2011 was 20.5. so you're saying that the president paid a lower tax rate than his secretary? that makes me sad. >> it makes me sad because i don't have a secretary. i hold myself to this standard as well. if i had one. >> mika, you pay a lower tax rate than your stylist? >> and my stylist gets nothing. >> i'm talking about your stylist and niece. >> i want to give enron its early birthday president. >> did hillary rosen say something else for her early birthday present? >> let's just look back over the week that was. >> can you guys believe how much a small statement that she made

on a prime time cable news show? >> uh-huh. >> where, i mean, what's the great faulkner line? signifying nothing. >> sound of fury signifying nothing, that one line dominated the news cycle last week. >> yes it did, you think contraception gets women mad? this one line was like throwing a again knead in the middle of the table, any conversation. >> explain why? >> oh, come on. >> i want to understand better. >> you don't? >> i'm dead serious, explain to us and everybody let mika -- please, no more interrupting, that's just not, that's not right. explain to us all seriously, why did this spark such outrage with women. >> because it expressing a

highly emotional guilt ridden divide between women and that was just stepping at it and attacking the woman. and everybody including me came to her defense because there's no reason for that tone right now, but it just opened up that divide again. >> between women that work outside the house and women thatwork inside the house? >> and michelle obama -- one that still causes great turmoil inside each woman individually. >> what was that sarah jessica parker movie you were in? >> i don't know how she does it. >> that is a woman, i have heard women talk about that movie. if they are outside the home working, they love it. if they are inside the home

working, they just hate it. there is a huge cultural divide in this country. >> and it's more significant than the last time that this many words had this effect, which was dan quail and dorothy brown. it was a less general remark. i think mika is right, out of all the things that have happened in the past three or four weeks that might actually -- this argument about women has a much better chance than a lot of others. >> you know what's fascinating is that the administration did everything but put on sack cloth and ashes. but yet it still seems to be connecting to them. despite the in fact that they have done everything they can do. >> it was interesting from afar to watch hillary rosen. she works and she has kids. hillary rosen gets it.

>> it was interesting that they immediately linked her to president obama. well, she's a democrat, so president obama must share this point of view. but the reason, as mika said, it touched off such fury, and my wife noticed it. because that is such a difficult decision for a woman to make. my wife went back to work after our first child, and went back to work with our second child. but it's not like she's sitting there with her feet up. >> democratic senator russ feingold joins us on set. and dave barry and ridley peterson are here to discuss "the story of peter pan". but first bill karins with your

great universal forecast. you just play it safe, bill. >> good morning, everyone, a wild weekend at mika's house, as far as what's going on today, nothing compares to what happened this weekend, the pictures are incredible. tornado chasers were dotted all over the map. many, many twisters were caught on camera. woodward, oklahoma, this is where we had the five fatalities. now as far as what we dealt with, 126 tornadoes, iowa, nebraska, but mostly there. from wichita to new york city. that's where we had the five fatalities. those thunderstorms have died off slightly. still some storms today in houston, eventually going down through new orleans and all through mississippi. we need that rain in the northeast, we can't get it. high fire danger today. it's going to be very dry and it's going to be toasty.

temperatures in the upper 80s. it's starting to feel like the middle of summer obviously. we're not going to see anything cooler, it will be a one-day heat wave. a nice day in the southwest. but once again, 88 degrees today in boston for the boston marathon, hard enough running that far without the heat. washington, d.c., you'll be right with us today, near 90. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

north korea failed to put a rocket into orbit. this brings us to a segment we like to call, what are you doing? north korea, what are you doing? you're 0 for 3 on launching rockets, clearly you're not ready for this. you're like the last kid at the playground still trying to dunk while the sun goes down. do you really think your country is ready for a nuclear bomb? you really don't have the sony walkman. i know you just took over for your dad kim jong-il, so you have some size 8 shoes to fill. plus don't feel you have to hold yourself

>> all right, 23 past the hour, joining us now a former democratic senator from wisconsin. he's the author of the new book "while america sleeps" what happens while america sleeps? >> i was given a chance to write a book and i thought what's really concerning me. ten years after 911, we have gone into our shell. but we aren't really reaching out to the rest of the world and

being really aware from the threats of al qaeda that continues, to the chinese influence in africa, to the iranian influence in south america. >> what's theest threat to the country? >> the biggest threat is this thing i just identified, that we don't think we have to have a global vision, we think that we're okay without knowing@about northern africa. a coup in maui might actually have something to do with this issue. the folks in mali have actually taken over timbuktu. obviously you can say china's the biggest threat, or the iranian nuclear, really the greatest threat that we have never felt as a government or as a people that we have to be

knowledgeable about the rest of the world. and i'm very concerned that we don't have that vision. >> it's like a cancer that has spread across the globe and suddenly you have to know mali, you have to know about yemen, and you have too know about these other countries that we have ignored forever, because it doesn't matter what state sanctions al qaeda's growth. that's a danger to new york, washington and wisconsin. >> joe, we have seen this before, we see two embassies being attacked in africa, you see the u.s.s. cole hit in yemen, you see these guys blow up the buddha in afghanistan. a lot of people say these don't seem to be important places. the same thing is playing out now. in all those places, affiliates or sympathizers of groups like al qaeda are very active, we're not safe and i think we're

ignoring it develop, at least as a people. i know there are people in the government that are trying to deal with it. but as a nation and as a people that are in office, really are not that focussed on it. >> it sounds senator like you're making a case for more activist military, to go into places and stamp out evil where it lives. but wasn't one of the lessons of the last decade is that a futile effort. >> you go to every corner of the globe, it's just the opposite. there was a chapter in my book called the risk game. you have to go into -- we came into this idea of sort of doing one country at a time militarily. this isn't about invading countries and staying there forever like we did in afghanistan. it's just the opposite of the foolish strategy of invading one country at a time or only being

able to focus on one country at a time such as iran. today it's north korea, tomorrow it's iran. the analogy i use it's more like scrabble than it is a game of risk. i don't think we have made that determination in terms of foreign policy. i think president obama is better at it than president bush was, but we have to start understanding all of these different places in the world and get ahead of the game. it's not about invading places at all. >> you took a partisan turn in what sounded like a bipartisan creed because you're actually arguing for a kind of george w. bush engagement, forward leaning, but with the means of what we sometimes think of a soft power, we fairly and unfairly think of it more as a democratic thing. do you think there's a bipartisan consensus on foreign policy? i think there's a by partisan

issue of ignoring foreign policy. it was a democratically united states senate that approved tthe iraq war. i think this president has the capacity and is showing the capacity to have a greater global vision and that is a thing that is good for all of us. this is something we have to work on together. we're going to have these fights domestically, we really should be able as a people in saying let's work together in understanding these problems. i was really impressed with the opportunities to work with a number of republican senators who probably wouldn't have been seen working publicly. there seemed to be a genuine desire to protect the country. and as a nation, we have to adopt that. >> senator, this weekend, the taliban launched their spring offensive, one of the most aggressive attacks the taliban has had in their history. i remember talking to you i think in the summer of 2010.

about afghanistan and you were one of the few democrats that spoke up and told the president, we need to come home. let's ramp up the exit and i asked you why won't more democratic senators come out and say what you're saying? yes, we know there are a lot of republicans that are saying let's stay there. why aren't the democrats standing up. why didn't they start in 2010, we have the lines and the money he could have followed two years ago. >> it reminds me exactly of what started kicking around in my mind in 2008, september, when i didn't know who the president was going to be. i heard the news that there was going to be a proposal for 20,000 or 30,000 troops. i am appalled that four years later, nothing's changed. there's no other -- there was no greater reason to stay there than there is now.

and just now people are starting to come around. and the fact is, yes, republicans aren't going to do it, and lord knows democrats don't do it because this is a democratic president. >> as we have been saying around the table for four years, the difference between leaving in 2008 and 2018 and now 2012 or 2022. it will be a joke, the taliban will still be there. it will be the same reality on the ground, spending more lives, allowing more young americans to die over there. >> your reporter richard engel said in 2009, here's a guy that wasn't exactly a peace nick. when he heard the announcement about the increase in the troops, he said this will end in tears, nothing's changed, the tear also continue. and the problem is you end up looking more like the taliban

drove us out of there if we stay there indefinitely. it is time to get out of there as fast as possible. >> i want to ask you before your go about the buffet rule which is going to get a vote in the next 24 hours. here's what fred barnes says in the weekly standard. clueless about job creation. one response to the buffett rule has been to dismiss it as a campaign gimmick. obama and their allies believe the investor class of millionaires and billionaires will be as robust as ever, even if they are subjected to higher income tax. >> it's important that everybody feels there's a fair system.

i think it allows us if -- wealthy people that are targeted at the right time. if it looks like everything is -- my belief is this is more symbolic, the real thing is repealing the bush tax cuts for fiscal reasons, not for symbolic reasons. >> repeal the bush tax cuts for everybody. >> repeal the estate tax and the higher income tax. i don't think you want to go back to the marriage piece. >> you think we should repeal all the bush tax cuts? >> that's $4 trillion or $5 trillion in the next decade. >> we need it in order to deal with our deficit situation, desperately. >> as approximate president said, we wish they were some

other countries. >> you're exactly right, it was a democratic congress that voted to support the iraq war, it was a democratic congress that voted to support the patriot act without looking at it and it was a democratic congress in 2010 that passed the bush tax cuts for another two years. a lot of our failings, domestically and internationally have, and successes have much more of a bipartisan flavor than most poll situations in washington would like. >> and the american people know it. they know that both parties are involved. i happen to think that this president is much more likely to resolve these problems and try to approach it in a bipartisan way. that's why i'm co-chairing his campaign. but to look at the past and say it's one party that did it, it's not credible. >> russ feingold, thank you so much, good to have you on the show. coming up. >> the novel is now a broadway play. dave berry and ridley pierson

are next here on "morning joe." we're going to be asking ridley why he hangs out with dave. >> such a good question, i don't get it. >> i don't get it. [ horn honks ]

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when i was a boy, i wished i could fly. >> me too. >> so did i. >> out the window and over the trees. >> that loop deloop and up to the stars, i dreamed about flying all the time. what? girls dream. >> up to the stars, i like that. >> me too. >> eventually of course we dream other change. >> we change, we grow up, it always happens, nothing is forever. >> that's the truly. >> everything ends. >> and so our story begins. >> that was a scene from peter and the star catcher, a new broadway play about how peter pan became peter pan. >> i have been so excited about this for years. >> co-authors dave barry and ridley pearson. peter and the star catcher. it's good to have you here.

>> yesterday we were in our smoke issing jackets and we get together at the holiday inn that's the last place you can still smoke a pipe a good pipe. and we're reading the review in the times and it's the in the art section. >> if you get ben brantley, even if he says this sucks. >> he didn't say this stucks. >> don't step on my lines, i'm trying to help you here. listen to this, it's the most exhilarating example of locomotive storytelling on broadway since the royal shakespeare company of nicholas nickelby. that is a rave, why does it work, guys? why does this work? >> because we had nothing to do with it.

>> we want to thank you guys for being with us. >> that's mind-blowing, isn't it? that review. >> rick elliott, he wrote jersey boys. we wrote a young adult fiction book. it was sort of a conventional model. >> it was peter pan before he became peter pan. >> he took it to a different level, it's a really, really funny play about peter pan. >> when we were in development, we had a meeting with rick and he had laid out his whole outline. and dave said, where was he when we were outlining our book. >> explain the book a little bit, what's the back story on it? >> the book really went to -- >> my daughter turns 15 today. >> oh, my goodness, what's her name? >> page. >> page, happy birthday. >> when she was 5, i was reading peter pan to her, she asked how

did peter pan and captain hook meet each other? >> we were so drunk. >> all of your ideas come. >> it was a great idea. and so we came one this idea of this boy's an arrest fan and he's on a ship and there's this mysterious trunk and there's this little girl, pirates get the trunk and it's one of those things that back and forth, and it turns out to be this magical stuff in the trunk. >> that creates tinker bell. so was page at all an inspiration to what you then created afterwards? >> what we did that's different, wendy in the cartoon version and

the animated version. it was like oh, peter. >> which have a kick butt wendy. >> it's wendy's mom with a bite. >> fantastic. so what was it like for you guys, seeing this idea, this children's book develop, i'm wondering for you, because you rarely get out of south florida and when you do, you're not getting any kind of raves from ben brantley. what was it like, seriously, the first time the curtained close affidavit the first performance, were you like -- you start crying, you see visions of god, what was it like for you. >> all of that. we were talking about this last night, when you write books, you want to get a movie deal, and those are usually very

disappointing. the movie doesn't get made, or the movie gets made or its not really what you wanted or something like that. but in this case, we got a broadway play. which pretty much never happens. >> nobody has a broadway play. >> we have carl hyacinth, but he doesn't have a broadway play. >> carl gave me a snake for my wedding anniversary. >> true story. >> why did he do that? >> it's carl when i got married, carl gave me a box, he said this is like really rare and you need to get a cage right away. and the egg never hatched. carl told me what it was but i don't remember. >> i have to ask you, as the

expert on miami, what do you think about that? >> what are we going to call it, center field at the marilyns? >> it looks like you bought it at spencer's gifts. >> the home run leaves the yard and then this happens. >> there you go. >> because when you think miami, you think class. you think the taxpayers of miami, who don't have schools, paid for this. >> how much did they pay, willie? >> $2.5 million. i think gloria paid for it by the way. >> peter pan and the star catcher. up next, this is for the bell. "morning joe" will be live from inside fenway park this friday commemorating the 100th year anniversary of the park. >> do you think that keynote would put that in center field.

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call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here. welcome back to "morning joe." >> it can definitely happen. >> that is going to melt soon, and really, really quickly. the mets are 6 and 2. >> new york is a better place when both teams are good. i really mean that. so i hope the mets are good this career. >> mets are going to be good and alabama is in the house next thursday. are we in washington this week? >> we're going to boston, but i know --

all right let's get a check on business. bryan sullivan is back and he's mad. this time it's personal. brian, tell us why. >> i thought it was happy monday on "morning joe," but i can do the angry thing? let's see -- >> do that, go angry. >> retail sales are better than expected. all those who -- >> and brian, could you help us out, there is a debate right now that is tearing america at the seams, like lincoln, you can sew the fabric of this great republic together again? can you tell us the true value of stay-at-home moms? >> $112,000 a year on average, according to salary.com. you put in all the work they do, the annual survey came out that if you factor in base pay and

overtime, that that would be the equivalent annual salary of jobs done by stay-at-home moms, maybe ann romney would have made more because she had five boys, and boys, as you know, they're smashing stuff. >> exactly. >> five of them. that's like $500,000. you know, brian, thank you for bringing these facts to us and, you know, john mensa can sit here and attack us, he can even attack our fraternity, but we're not going to sit here idly and let him tear down stay at home comes in the united states of america. >> i could never do the job, i don't have the patience, i don't have the skills and i have mad skills, by the way. before you let me go, i got to say something seriously, it's the five-year anniversary of the virginia tech shootings. i am a virginia tech graduate, we are all hokeys today.

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there was certainly a primary season to remember. >> it certainly was.

there was a time when people were saying i was the front runner. i got to thank you for that, mitt. you're the only candidate who can make me look exciting. >> and you're the only candidate who could make me look gay friendly. >> here you go. >> and i have placed your tip-in this envelope, make sure you give it to your husband when you get home, he'll know what to do with it. >> and don't spend it on birth control. >> i hope you all aren't reminiscing without me. >> hey, it's rick perry. >> there was even a time when i was a front-runner. i would have won the darn thing if i didn't take a deuce every time i opened my mouth. >> come on michelle, show us the "newsweek" face. >> no. >> "newsweek" face! "newsweek" face! >> all right fine. ♪

i'm meteorologist bill karins with your business travelers forecast. what a monday it's going to be, summer like heat in new england, snow in minnesota, rain along the gulf coast and more rain in the west. but boston today, boston marathon, 88 degrees, warmest temperature ever for the boston marathon. thunderstorms possible in detroit.

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>> he's so good with kids. >> he loves kids. i just got to ask, when, john meecham did it become politically incorrect to love kids in america. i'm not going to apologize for loving kids. >> mika, what did you learn? >> look at emma. >> i can't see anything. >> what is that picture? why is it off in the corner like that? >> way to go, t.j. >> anyhow. just a little reminder that we don't have today show money. i wish we had the money shot that lisa myers was able to use in her shot. >> i like it when that happens. >> it's good to be back. >> isn't it great to be back and having to deal with third rank amateurs. >> this is "morning joe," we will be back here tomorrow.